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Parallella Community • View topic - 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka Red+

4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka Red+

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4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka Red+

Postby dmytty » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:52 pm

Last edited by dmytty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby theover » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:36 pm

A nice expose about the BBC's wavelet-type of encoder, without touching much on the essence of why one/you may want that. Id be very interested in having a low power board with well made high quality High Definition encoders/decoders, and I'm sure to some extend the Parallella project could give that. It's a lot of work, as I perceive it, to make a parallelized Epiphany/FPGA/ARM (de-)codec work efficient in practice, and then there's the data IO issue as well.

Wavelets are hopefully going to make it as not-so-efficient encoders of movies (films) in at least hig definition and lots of bits per color/pixel. I've worked with among others the FFMPEG (powerful Open Source media en-/trans-coder software) package to do high bandwidth Schroedinger/Dirac encoding. A real time HD encoder or simply a 422 or 444 decoder (from live stream of file) would be nice, especially when added to some strong real-time graphics card processing (like Nvdia's "purevideo" or the freely usable VDPAU (on Linux)). I know that chain enough to know that films and even good TV with schroedinger trans-coding gives good results, so i'd be interested in that too. Schroediner (the more practical implementation of Dirac IIRC) is mainly Open Source though I think some optimized software and hardware implementations are not, and it does eat quite a bit of processing power: my I7-950 is far from real time on 1080HD formats.
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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby dmytty » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:25 am

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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby theover » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Well, the question of FPGA versus Adaptiva chip should be a matter of which parts of the encoding/decoding algorithms/signal processing blocks fit better on either. That is not that easy to determine,but in general random logic and small, high bandwidth connected not huge signal processing blocks with moderate amounts of very fast local memory fit on the FPGA, and can be tightly connected to the ARM, and pretty ok connected with the Epiphany chips interface. I know that if the Xilinx 7020 is used that is a pretty powerful FPGA, although there sure are bigger Kintex-7 and such (which however probably take almost forever to program). The pipelined floating point (I don't recall by heart if there is double precision like the latest Nvidia Cuda Kepler graphics processors) and possibly fixed point computation rate of the Epiphany is considerable, and if the Risc architecture functions well in practice, small grained task switching and multiple instructions acting on data streams should be fairly efficient.

My remark about the graphics card is about advanced video filters, which make High Definition motion (also deinterlace) and sharpness pretty good in practice. Those filters aren't Open Source (only the interface in VDPAU) and when done on full HD work fine on recent cards, but do take serious energy from for instance my GT640, and on my Asus 2d gen. I7 notebook the 540 card under windows can do motion filtering, but on HD only just (and it gets hot doing so).

My work with the Schroedinger (early Linux command line tool and recently self-compiled ffmpeg) was done on TV recordings, High Defintion BBC and ITV recordings, and transcoding of my own (Sony) .m2t high definition video files. On TV and HD fiulms the effect is a much nicer image, more visually balanced, emphasis of th right details and dither, and the transcoded results can be yet again transcoded to h264 with good results. On my own HD recordings, going to Schroediner makes the result (and the frames) more film-like (requires good HD video filming skills), especially when preceded by VDPAU mpeg-2 decoding and deinterlacing. When the result of that is put into h264, youtube is clueless how to co *completely* mess up the result, is a nice side-effect.

Of course it would be nice to have a networked box (I use a gigaether switch at the moment) which can do real-time HD h264 and realtime Schroedinger en and decoding, but that challenges the network data-rate: maybe 4 b/s or 10Gb/s interfaces wuld be needed, especially forraw frames at more than 420 and low frame rates. I can decode up to 422 1080HD Schroedinger in software, but that does require power (I mean Watts).

Recently i had some discussion with people into HD recording concerts in the Amsterdam Concert Hall, because of a demonstration of their cameras and remote control and recording equipment. Suffice it to say I believe high quality encoders shoul dbe in demand, to capture and nicely compress all those wonderful pixels and their color-bits accurately, and with an eye for filmic correctness. of course full feature film multi level very high bandwidth Dirac/Schroeding variations wouldbe welcome too, up to Ultra HD or at least in 4k as you're I suppose talking about when you mention the Red system, but that may be a bit ambitious. I recall, I had an early Blackfin (Analog Devices) DSP board where the software from Analog's site or CD included wavelet transform code. At the time it seemed hopeless to me but nowadays Schroedinger is going strong! Working with a nice 4k (Red) system is a dream for me at this moment, but for film and High Q (HD) TV is a good challenge, which deserves a filmic approach, which partially can come from a good Schoedinger codec box!

To answer some of your suggestions, I once worked on a EE graphics project (before NVidia took some of the ideas along somehow) for accelerating ray-tracing/radiosity computer graphics computations, so I kno my share of architectural design of such machines, which is a serious job and far from easy. Of course wavelets are a generality coming from Physics (in nuclear physics they are in un-windowed version a possible functional basis for solving multi-dimensional differential equations like the well known Schroedinger equation, one of the most important physics equations since Einstein c.s.) whic can also be used to analize sounds, and all kinds of coherent multi-dimensional signals.


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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby 9600 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Just wanted to note here also that there is now a .

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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby theover » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:02 pm

mighty fine, maybe this discussion could be moved there
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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby Sundance » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:18 pm

Using an Epiphany DSP??? - think not! You should be ashamed to advertise here and I hope the Moderator will delete your post and your access rights.

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Re: 4k wavelet based lossless video/still camera codec -aka

Postby 9600 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:47 am

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